Interview With Dr. Bruce Maccabee Part II of IV February 2010
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President Jimmy Carter Ken: So many different presidents have been interested in UFOs and yet when they got into office they were not able to find out as much as they thought. Why do you think that this is, are they being blocked by the military, or some organization within the government? Dr. Maccabee: Well I would probably say that it is blockage by some organization in the government, or at the edges of the government, maybe some sort of a contractor type of organization. We know that Carter, before he was elected, said oh yeah I am going to release all of the information. We know from the FBI file that he did request NASA and all the organizations, he asked them if they have any stuff that would apply to his request for releasing UFO information and the FBI said we don't have anything. They lied to Carter the same way that they lied to everybody else and said we have never been interested in that subject. I was not sure of they had been interested in it way back in the 40s and 50s, but anyway when Carter got in, we don't really know exactly what he did, but we do know that essentially he put out the word that he wanted information and the FBI said we haven't got any. That is in the FBI file itself. Jody Powell I believe it was who wrote the letter to the FBI asking for UFO information. It is a matter of record that Carter never released anything. Now the government would say well that's because we didn't have anything. As far as the people that were associated with Carter, that might be true because they didn't have anything and nobody would tell him anything. The government is a huge organization that spends, while I hate to think about what they spend, $20-$30 billion on intelligence alone. They can cover up an awful lot of stuff. You could have projects going that nobody would know about, except project managers, certain individuals, or designated project leaders. The Manhattan project and the World War II model shows how that can be done. Skeptics have argued that everything is going to get leaked out at one time or another. That is not true, that depends on the nature of the material and who was being trusted to say nothing about it. The case of the Roswell crash is an interesting study which would indicate that there was something going on inside of the government and the government tried to cover it up, but given time certain leakers, people let decided that the outside world should know about it, came forth so we have now a lot of testimony by a lot of people on the Roswell case. What we still don't have is an arrow that points to where that stuff is and who was controlling it and so on. Ken: In your opinion what organization is doing the most today to try and get the government to release its UFO data and do you think that Washington ever will? Dr. Maccabee: I don't know what organization. There has been a recent sort of run up the flag and see who salutes type of operation, I think maybe the Navy, indicating that there may be some Navy brass who would like to get this out. Aside from that I don't know of any government organization that is trying to get this stuff out, there may be one that I just do not know about. Ken: I know that you are sent a lot of photos to be analyzed. Have you ever gotten one that would lead you to believe that we have an advanced space plane? Dr. Maccabee: Well I'm trying to think. Some photos that look like rays of light and some occasional photos that look like triangles and things. If it were a space plane or something adapted to fly into the upper regions of the atmosphere, it wouldn't be traveling around say within a mile of the Earth's surface, where most UFO photos come from, people looking up into the sky and seeing something that is less than a mile up I would guess. I guess the answer to your question is no. Ken: The reason that I asked that question is that there are these rings of smoke that have been found on the Google Earth map. I don't know if you are familiar with it. They seem to indicate a pulse jet engine plane going in excess of 8000 mph. Have you heard about that? Dr. Maccabee: No. rings of smoke I have not heard of. I have seen round knob like things. Information that went around the Internet and everybody checked up on it and sure enough there was this round gray circular thing that looked like it was up above the ground, as I searched in other areas I found more and more of them. It looked to me they could be software pegs that appeal when you patch together the pictures from different sources to create a large mosaic and there have been some other things like that, that I recall but I haven't heard about smoke rings. Ken: What I am referring to is it looks like every once in a while there is a puff out of a jet plane and the trail goes all the way from the United States, it looks like from California, into the middle of Europe. Dr. Maccabee: I am not familiar with that.
UFO Ken: What was your most interesting sighting, or report? Dr. Maccabee: Well of course I have had quite a few that are interesting for various reasons. The jumbo jet 1986, the Japan Airlines case in November of 1986. That involved aircrew flying over Alaska. That involved an object appearing in front of their aircraft and trailing along with them for a period of about 12 minutes or so. It went off the left side and the Captain saw what he described as a gigantic spacecraft behind them. That was interesting from the point of being a multiple witness sighting of something that was occurring on a big jetliner. The FAA, the Federal Aeronautics Administration actually investigated the case, because there was radar involved. Almost 20 years later to the day was the O'Hare airport thing which was in November 2006 and made a big splash in January of 2007, when Jon Hilkevitch published the story in the Chicago Tribune, or what ever. Ken: Yes it was in Chicago I know that. Dr. Maccabee: Yeah it was in a Chicago paper, whatever one. It talked about the thing that was seen at the airport that suddenly went up through a cloud, punched its way through the cloud leaving a hole. That was pretty interesting. I guess the most complex series of events that I have ever been involved in was Gulf Breeze. The Gulf breeze sightings started in 1987 and went up into the 1990s. Perhaps the most scientifically oriented, in the sense that they had data available was the New Zealand sightings of 1978. The New Zealand sightings are unique because you had multiple witnesses onboard an aircraft, that is not totally uniquel, They have conversations between the plane and the airport control center, that is not so unique to have air traffic control center communications, but there was a news crew on board the plane at the time making their own tape recordings of what they saw and taking all on movie film. So you have some incidences that correspond to radar film. In the UFO business we often like to feature radar visuals where you can get something on radar at the same time somebody is seeing light or something in the direction that the radar is pointing and sees a target. Here we have a situation where somebody was filming what was being seen at the same time as radar and tape recordings and so on. Like I said they are all interesting for various reasons it would be hard to say which is the most interesting. Ken: How do you rate the Channel Islands sighting? Dr. Maccabee: Are you talking about Bowyer, what's his name? That was analyzed quite carefully in a report published by NARCAP. Bowyer, that's where he claimed to see a huge orange.. was it? Ken: I think so and he thought it was a mile in diameter at first. Dr. Maccabee: An orange colored light, it was something I don't remember exactly? Ken: Well he said he saw a disk shaped craft and I think there was a second plane involved. Dr. Maccabee: There was another airplane coming from another direction I believe. Ken: Yes and that pilot saw it. Dr. Maccabee: There seem to be a coincidence and that they were both seeing the same thing at the same time. Ken: Right. Dr. Maccabee: Of course he had to carry on with his flight plan and he landed and I believe that there were a couple of passengers that saw it also. Ken: Yes they did. Dr. Maccabee: That's really interesting, a multiple witness from the air and a pilot that's considered to be very very good in a situation that is daytime.
Kirkland AFB, Sandia Testing Area Ken: Have you noticed any UFOs being attracted to anything other than nuclear power plants and military bases? Dr. Maccabee: There has in the past been an association with water. We have the USO type of report of submerged things and the type of report where an object is seen going into the water and sometimes coming out. One of the first sightings that I investigated when I joined NICAP, the National Investigating Committee on Aerial Phenomena, the first version, there is now a new version of NICAP that appears on the Internet. The original NICAP was an organization long before the Internet. They had a big file cabinet full of sightings and one of those sightings I pulled out and investigated was the report made in 1957 or 1958 of an event that occurred in 1945, I think it was, in Alaska. It involved a troop transport type of ship, a landing craft. A dozen guys there in northern Alaska, what is the archipelago there, I can't think of the name, anyway they all followed the coast a ways and the report was that suddenly there was a big fluttering in the ocean, water spraying all around and all of a sudden something popped up out of the water. It hovered and vibrated as it took off at high speed. Immediately all the guys were flabbergasted and assumed that it had to be some new Japanese weapon. They were all debriefed, according to the guy that wrote the letter, and the information was sent back to Washington and nobody knows where it went after that. This is a landing craft, so it didn't have a log and we can't track back to a particular date and the guys report was that all of the dozen guys saw something that came from the water. Had that occurred a few years later it would have been considered a flying saucer sighting of a strange type. So anyway you asked where are these things concentrated and in the 50s there seem to be a lot of sightings around secure areas related to atomic bombs like the Cannon Air Force Base, Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque New Mexico, Los Alamos area in New Mexico, Fort Hood in Texas, that hasn't been in the news recently but 60 years ago they were seeing strange lights around the Killeen base atomic weapons storage area and Fort Hood. Oak Ridge Tennessee had a bunch of sightings and even the FBI got involved with those and as a matter of fact the FBI learned about the sightings at Killeen, Fort Hood and Oak Ridge and there was information in the FBI file about that stuff, because the FBI was justly concerned about espionage going on and they wanted to know what these things in the sky were. Finally the things in the sky sort of went away and so did the problem and nobody paid any attention to it after that. The records are still there about what they reported. I guess the answer to your question is does anything other than nuclear. I guess it has to do with water
UFO Ken: There has been a lot of talk about invisibility and UFOs and that they seem to be visible during some eclipses, as witnessed by a recent Mexican eclipse. Have you ever seen anything that would indicate to you that invisibility is a characteristic of some UFOs? Dr. Maccabee: Well I guess it depends on what you mean by invisibility. I guess true invisibility would be, I guess we are talking about eyeball type, or taking a picture with a camera. This sort of simulates what your eyeball does. Optical invisibility, the object is sitting there, standing there, hovering their, or whatever, right in front of you and you can't see it, you can see everything behind it as if you are looking right through it, but you can't see the thing itself. That would be what I call true invisibility. There is another type of invisibility that does something that renders your eye unable to see it. I wrote a paper which is at my website called acceleration, which argued that if some object was hovering in plain sight and you could see it and all of a sudden it accelerated at extremely high speed, a large amount of acceleration, it could zip off to one side so fast that you could think that it “disappeared” and became invisible, the reason being you couldn't see it move. Maybe you saw it jiggle a little and then disappeared. This has to do with the fact that you're eye is only capable of seeing things that move in day time that move at rates slower than a certain amount. There is a phrase, the twinkling of an eye, something happening in the twinkling of an eye. While the twinkling of an eye happens to be something like 1/25 or 1/30 of a second. If an object could travel more than its own size in a 30th of a second, you might lose track of it and think that it was invisible. So there was that first and second type of invisibility. The first type of invisibility is hard to say because you may have no evidence that it is there. I did investigate a case in Florida in the Gulf Breeze area in 1994, I forget the year, it's on my website. I wrote a paper entitled the UFO with the magnetic personality. What we found was that there was a strong magnetic field in a case where there had been a UFO sighting. One night while driving home this lady saw a standard model type of disk behind her house and then it just zipped off. She had a flying disc sighting and she told husband and the next morning he went out. He just happened to have a very sensitive magnetometer device, he used the magnetometer for detecting wellheads. He was into oil prospecting and stuff. This magnetometer gadget was very sensitive to the Earth's magnetic field and stuff. He took this magnetic field device walked out of his house thinking that maybe this thing had come down and hovered behind his house and that he would see some affect on his magnetometer. Sure enough he did and it was recorded on tape by MUFON. I analyzed it and it turned out to be a huge magnetic field in an area where there shouldn't have been any at all other than the Earth's normal field. As a matter of fact I was told by some guys in the Navy lab that the size of the field that was detected was equivalent to the distortion in the Earth's field by a destroyer size vessel. We are talking about a ship that is 50, 60, 70 feet wide and 150, 200 feet long. They could move this magnetometer device, off field gradient magnetometer as it is called, they could move it around and find out where the magnetic field was strongest and where it was weakest as they walked away from the general area the magnetometer had no affect at all. As you got close to certain areas in particular the top of a certain tree the magnetometer went crazy. There was nothing there. There was absolutely no reason to have a magnetic field. There was nothing there except wood, sand, ordinary biological specimens, people, in this area of Florida. Nevertheless they detected a huge magnetic field the day after the sighting. Two days later they went back and there wasn't any magnetic field. What had been magnetic two days earlier had gone. You can't magnetize trees, you can't magnetize the dirt, so you have to ask yourself what was creating that huge magnetic field? They couldn't see a thing anywhere in the sky. Could this be a case of true invisibility of a craft? I don't know, maybe the Klingons had their cloaking device on. Ken: I have to tell you, I don't talk about this much, but I saw something not a UFO sighting. I was in my yard with my family and I was watching the planes go by. I heard rotors and they sounded like they were over my head, but there was nothing there. I took my binoculars which have a red coating on the lens and I looked straight up and I could see a helicopter with a platform under it. I said to myself how can this be, it was completely unmarked. I put down the glasses, I looked up again and I could see nothing. I picked up the glasses again and looked up and I could see it again. Dr. Maccabee: Was is daytime? Ken: This is in the middle of the day, sitting in my yard at about two in the afternoon. This was not a UFO sighting, this was something else. It seemed to me that there was some sort of test going on and that test involved invisibility. Dr. Maccabee: Yeah. I was thinking of another case, I remember talking about, There was this case in Gulf Breeze Florida at about the time of the sightings with Ed Walters and so on. Lou Pollak, his wife and his daughter and son-in-law were standing on a peer in Gulf Breeze Florida. This was at a time when UFO sightings were quite common in that area, around 1991 and 1992 and he told me that it was his daughter and son-in-law saw this thing behind them. It just suddenly appeared out of thin air so to speak. It was a daytime sighting and while it was there, they could clearly see it silhouetted against the trees and the background. It was a real solid object sitting about 100 feet from where they were. He said that all of a sudden it disappeared. When he said disappeared, he said that it didn't move, all of a sudden it was just gone. Now did it become invisible? People speculate on all sorts of stuff, such as going into another dimension, darted away at such high speed that you couldn't see it. I don't know what? I think that there was something going on that we don't understand. Ken: The thing that I saw was always there because you could hear the rotors, you know what I mean? Dr. Maccabee: Yeah. Ken: Even though you couldn't see the object you could hear the rotors. Dr. Maccabee: That sounds like a strange condition. The lighting of the Sun, I don't know where the sun was during a sighting, too much glare in the air, or something like that and you cut through the glare with the red glasses? Ken: I have got to say this, it was pretty low, it was no more than 1000 feet above me. Dr. Maccabee: It is probably not a controversial thing to say that if UFOs or UFOnauts, extraterrestrials, or whatever they are, are real and have been coming here since 1947, when we had the first sightings that we clearly classified as ET or non-human intelligence, NHI, that doesn't require that they be from another planet or another dimension, or come from another time whatever, just that they are not us. If they have been here since 1947 they could have been here since 1847, or the year 47, or minus 1947. They could've been here a long time and yeah I suppose they could be creatures walking among us now and I suppose you have talked to Ed Jacobs at some time or another and his theory of hybrids. Essentially becoming adapted to living with us and essentially taking over somehow, I don't know exactly what he predicts is going to happen, but he is not too happy about it. At any rate the answer to your question is that I would not be surprised. Continued on Part III |
