Interview With Dr. Bruce Maccabee Part I of IV February 2010
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UFO Ken: Our guest today is the well known UFO investigator and photo analyst, Dr. Bruce Maccabee. Dr. Maccabee: Well its nice to be here, thanks for inviting me. Ken: Its always a pleasure.
Kenneth Arnold Describing UFOs He Saw Dr. Maccabee: Well I don't know about the government they possibly may have treated it very seriously all along, but they're just not telling us. On the other hand as far as the public is concerned, if the amount of material that is UFO related is any indication, you have things like the UFO Hunters show that was on the History Channel, I don't know if it's back again or not, but the Discovery Channel and others, who do these documentary type things, and have featured UFO programs practically every week for the last couple of years. That is something that would have been unheard of 10 years ago. So it could well be more of an acceptance of the situation. Polls have been taken recently that show that a large fraction of the public think that it is all real. So I don't know about the government, but it would appear that the general public is treating it more seriously. Ken: Some people are saying that there are not more UFOs in the skies, there are just more people with cameras. What do you think? Dr. Maccabee: Well it is certainly true that there are more people with cameras. I don't know how many UFOs there are in the sky, but there are plenty of things in the sky that are not UFOs that people pick up with their cameras. They cause a lot of extra work for photo analyst types like myself. I am getting a couple of photos a week from people with camera phones and so on and the photos from these camera phones are the most ubiquitous. You are most likely to find them around. You spend time analyzing some image that isn't very well resolved and you can't really tell what it is, how big it is, how far away it was. Very often people will be taking a picture of something in the scenery, a building, a mountain, trees, general scenery whatever and then up in the sky there will be some sort of a line or brown spot, or something and I am asked what could this be? Could it be a bird, an insect, a film flaw, or could it be an extraterrestrial craft? Generally the image is sufficiently indistinct that you couldn't really say what it is. Very often the image will be blurred all the way around, or blurred on the left or right for example, or blurred on the top and the bottom for example and you could say it was slightly out of focus. If it were traveling from left to right, or right to left, the speed of the object could cause some blurring. You might conclude that it might be an insect close to the camera. There are a lot more cameras out there and they are generating a lot more spurious images, but I don't know if they're generating a lot more true UFO photos. Ken: How many megapixels do you think it would take before a picture, say from a phone, would be good enough for it to be analyzed? Dr. Maccabee: That's a tough question because even if you had a 10 megapixel camera, one of the professional types, 10 or more megapixels, you can get images that are questionable as to what they might be. It's just that anything that has less than four or five megapixels, it's going to have to be a really big image to get an estimate of the shape of the image. When you take a picture with too few megapixels you get a fuzzy edge on almost everything. Camera phone pictures are notorious for being half a megapixel or something like that, they'll like the digital cameras was 10 years ago. Ken: Yeah they just started to get to be up to five megapixels or so. Dr. Maccabee: So anyway, it's always worth paying attention to that, because you never know, somebody might just come up with something. You have to have an image that's big enough to be 20, 30 or 40, or even 100 pixels, before you can say much about it. I've had people come up to me and say tell me what this is on an image that is only about 10 pixels in size. While you can take anything that you can think of, break it into 10 individual little pieces, those little square blocks and then ask yourself how well imaged is that? It is not very good, that's what I wanted to say.
UFO Ken: What were your thoughts when you had been told over and over that UFOs didn't exist and then you received Freedom Of Information documents that showed that the FBI and Military knew that UFOs were extraterrestrial? Dr. Maccabee: Well as far as FBI documents are concerned, the only reference to FBI documents, in the early 50s I'm talking about, was Captain Edward Ruppelt's book, the report on unidentified objects, in which he says that the FBI was never interested in the subject, which shows that he knew, basically nothing. When I got the first stack of FBI documents in 1977 and was reading them and arranging them in some sort of order rather than having a hodgepodge of papers, I was reading that the FBI did actually investigate in 1947. They investigated a number of witnesses to find out if there was any possibility of communist subversion. They were asked by the Air Force to investigate and see whether communist subversion could account for any of these sightings? The idea was that the Soviets might generate spurious sightings of highly technical craft, to give the impression to the American people that the Soviets had jumped ahead of us. The FBI couldn't find any evidence of communist subversion from the witnesses that they talked to, so they got out of it. FBI headquarters was like a black hole, once they had established a connection with the Air Force, the Air Force kept sending them stuff. They stored it. Congress had directed that the FBI could not destroy anything. When I filed a freedom of information request in the fall of 1976 and then got a phone call from a very surprised FBI agent saying that he found 1600 pages of stuff in the FBI files, that really surprised me too. I knew there was something going on that we didn't know before. It turned out that the FBI collected some stuff from the Air Force that you cannot even find in the Air Force files, the files of Project Blue Book. And you referred to the government knowing that they are real, we have an FBI document from 1949, it is 1948 or 1949, saying that the Air Force and the Army treated the subject of UFOs as top secret. Of course they were worried about things that were seen around areas of top secret research, relating to atomic bombs. Things appearing in the sky, so-called Green fireballs and all the things that they saw in the sky in these highly restricted areas. They knew that there was stuff there, it's just that the initial statements said, ah well yeah there was something there, but it was not a threat to the United States. And there was no evidence of any technology that we are not familiar with. They initially tried to pooh-pooh the whole thing. In my book the UFO FBI Connection, I try and point out that the Air Force took sort of a schizophrenic attitude towards it. On the one hand the Air Force guys weren't stupid, they could see by reading reports and so forth that there was something going on. On the other hand when it came time to go public with what they had, they said well there's really nothing to it. We are handling this problem. It was a tradition that the Air Force was doing a good job because, they said we are doing a good job, in words more or less to that affect. Ken: Wasn't there a memo from Hoover when he complained that all of the crashed UFOs were being picked up by the military and that he couldn't get to see them? Dr. Maccabee: Well there was a memo from July 1947 when the Air Force asked the FBI to investigate. This request for investigation came from a general in the intelligence part of the Pentagon, Air Force intelligence. Hoover said I would do it, but I must insist to complete access for all disks recovered. For example in the La. case the army grabbed it before we had a chance to look at it. That was capital L small a. In Louisiana there was a case that had been reported by somebody who had a disk type object land in his backyard, it was something like that. It turned out to be a model hoaxer object that somebody had thrown into the backyard of somebody else. The problem that the FBI had was, if they would have said that flying saucers were created by the Soviet Union we should be able to analyze them and prove it by finding things made in the Soviet Union as being parts of these flying saucers. So they had a legitimate requirement to get hardware to examine, basically. The Air Force response to who will, was basically okay we will give you information, but the Air Force never did give the FBI any hardware. You have as sort of a side story here the Roswell case and if you assume that the Roswell case actually involved hardware, then it was clear that there was information and hardware that would prove the case which was held from the FBI and everybody else. The FBI was forced to rely totally on witness interviews and never got any hardware from the Air Force to look at. Ken: Do you think that there could be any connection with ancient structures that seem to defy modern construction principles and UFOs or aliens? Dr. Maccabee: Well you asked could there be, I suppose they could be. I don't know that there's any direct evidence. The people who make these arguments tend to take an opposite view argument, that means human beings could not have done it, so therefore it must have been done by somebody else. That argument has been argued up and down for years. Conventional archaeologists say that human beings could have done it given time and money and a bunch of other stuff. I haven't spent a lot of time studying those arguments, things like stone blocks, you have stone blocks weighing 10 times or whatever, from the great pyramid that are stuck together so close that you cannot put a blade in between them, comments like that. Does that mean that it has to have been made by extraterrestrials with advanced technology? If they had advanced technology, why would they build things out of stone blocks? Why wouldn't they build something more sophisticated? Of course stone blocks are pretty effective if you are looking for longevity. The pyramids are still there except, for where they have been torn down by human beings. So anyway I would say that I cannot rule the possibility out, but I can't say that it's true. Ken: What do you think of Dr. Leir's work, where he claims to have removed over 15 alien implants from people so far? Dr. Maccabee: I haven't kept up with what's the most recent information on that, but it's my understanding and I don't know if he has released all the information that he has, I haven't looked at his website or anything recently, if he has a website? Ken: Yeah he has a website. Dr. Maccabee: I haven't looked at it recently so I don't know. Ken: I have talked to him a few times too. Dr. Maccabee: You have talked to him? Ken: Yeah. Dr. Maccabee: I don't know how many tests of these materials he has gotten out of people, but I know from my own experience, when I was at the big Roswell party in the summer of 2008, a man arrived who claimed he had an implant in the webbing of his finger. We had a big strong magnet and we could put the magnet next to his finger and we could see the skin bulge out. When you moved it back and forth it was like there was something under there trying to get back to the magnet. It was pulling on his skin and he clearly had something under there that was magnetic. Didn't seem to be any scar that you could see, how that would have happened I don't know. I am not familiar with all the details of the stuff that Leir has taken out. It's certainly is a reasonable way to do research, to try and get some of these things out of people and see what they are. You have to imagine what they could be, although they seem like little chunks of stone, or glass, or whatever, they could be very sophisticated devices made to look like something simple. Ken: He has found out so far that number one, they put out a radio signal and number two, that they connect to tiny nerves in the body and use them to power the radio signal. Dr. Maccabee: Yeah I remember little hooks or something like that, that hook onto the nerves. Ken: Yeah. Dr. Maccabee: Can you imagine taking apart your cell phone? Stripping it down to the point where you were looking at a little block of silicon? How the heck would you know what that is supposed to do? The answer is you wouldn't. You might be able to say that it has some structure a some what periodic array of things and say that this doesn't look like it was natural, but that would be all you could do. You need two things. You need the hardware and you need the software, in a computer analogy and the two things go together. The software is sort of a dedicated to make the hardware work unlike with a computer you turn it off and the software isn't working all of a sudden. You look at the hardware itself and there may be evidence that it is a computer, but you can't tell what the hell it is doing, or what it was supposed to do. Somehow you've got to get the software back to make it work. If you take one of these things out, who's to say that it's going to work the way that it should? It might be like a self-destructing mechanism. Ken: That's why he does what he does. He keeps blood over it to keep it going, because he found that if it wasn't covered in the blood it would stop. functioning. Dr. Maccabee: Well I guess I haven't really kept up with that. Ken: The most amazing part of his work is that these things are not rejected by the body. Some sort of a membrane forms over them. Dr. Maccabee: Yep, alright.
UFO Ken: UFOs seem to come in all different shapes. Do you think that the different shapes of UFOs indicate that races from different planets are observing the earth? Dr. Maccabee: While that certainly could be a possibility, it could be that one race has several different types of UFOs for different reasons. Just like we have different vehicles of different shapes. An automobile doesn't look like an airplane and it's the same race of people who made automobiles and airplanes. I don't deny that there might be multiple races coming, but to say that different shaped craft is evidence of that is a disconnect. Continued on Part II |
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